JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

Interview with Jil Sander

JS . THONET - A PERSONAL INTERPRETATION BY JIL SANDER

It is a well-known fact that you have always felt inspired by design and architecture. Which interior designers and architects have been particularly influential in your life? 
 

I am particularly interested in the interplay between architecture and interior design, including the use of lighting. For me, the Ibaraki Kasugaoka Kyokai by Tadao Ando was a formative experience. American architect Jay Smith also inspired me a lot, and I spent fourteen years working with the architect Michael Gabellini. We created 80 retail spaces together. Zaha Hadid and I explored the idea of a collaboration, but unfortunately we never got the chance to realise all of our ideas. My own interiors were inspired by the work of Donald Judd and Eileen Gray.

Are their influences also evident in your fashion designs, and, if so, in which pieces?   
 

Actually, I wouldn’t really say so. In my fashion designs, I was influenced more by modern art. But the sculptural aspect, thinking three-dimensionally and the material quality are all key for me when it comes to fashion design. 

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

“Inspiration is for amateurs,” painter Chuck Close was quoted as saying, “the rest of us just show up and get to work.” Do you agree with him? 


There is some truth to that. Every morning, I head to my studio. Creativity requires continuity and habit, but it is also not possible without a vision. Take a ballet, for example: it takes an extraordinary amount of discipline and practice until the dancers have the choreography down. But practice aside, there also has to be an idea at the start.

. CREATIVITY REQUIRES CONTINUITY AND HABIT, BUT IT IS ALSO NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT A VISION .
 

Do you believe the cliché that with exceptional creativity comes a certain amount of dysfunction? The advertiser Jean-Remy von Matt once said: “I am convinced that creative people are fundamentally dysfunctional. Show me a creative person who is normal and I’ll show you a person who is only moderately creative.” 


This is me. It wasn’t until later in life that I tackled the challenges of finding my way around a supermarket and using a cashpoint. I was a bit helpless because I just didn’t have time for these everyday tasks before.

You recently claimed, “Only when the old becomes tedious is there room for the new.” What exactly did you mean? 


What I mean is that people don’t want to rotate through the same clothes in their closets forever. When I can figure out what it is that I don’t like any more about the old piece, then I’m that much closer to the new. Even things we love can become too familiar. I want to refresh them and breathe new life into them. Technological advances are helpful in the process of reinventing a product. The result should be something that fits right now in the present and that people desire.

At the same time, there are also things that stand the test of time and live on regardless of new fashions and trends. How do you think we can recognise a design classic? What sets it apart?


You can tell you have a design classic when you never tire of it and if it’s a piece that somebody would be pleased to inherit one day. 

. YOU CAN TELL YOU HAVE A DESIGN CLASSIC WHEN YOU NEVER TIRE OF IT AND IF IT’S A PIECE THAT SOMEONE WOULD BE PLEASED TO INHERIT ONE DAY .
 

Which classics have been a part of your life?


The Thonet 209 bentwood chair that has stood in my kitchen for many years now. The spiral staircase we designed for my flagship stores, which is also in my studio and whose nickel-silver alloy finish gave me the idea for the Thonet chairs. And, lastly, for as long as I can remember, I have been using the Faber Castell Fine Pen 1511 as well as their pencils, which I always keep really sharp.

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

Which values did you and do you associate with the Thonet brand?


What impressed me the most was the company’s meticulous manufacturing processes and its general approach, which brings together tradition and innovation to create exceptional new classics.  

How would you describe the Thonet S 64 to someone who is blind?


I would ask them simply to touch it. People with sight loss have a heightened sense of touch so the quality would be very obvious to them.

Why did you decide to get involved in the collaboration with Thonet? 


Firstly, I was drawn to the idea of timelessness, and I also couldn’t resist the possibilities that lay waiting in an almost 100-year-old classic design. The chair’s design and fundamental structure have stood the test of time and deserve contemporary recognition. It was a fun challenge to work together in spirit with one of the most influential Bauhaus designers. My goal was to take the chair as Breuer meant it to be and bring it into the here and now.

. MY GOAL WAS TO TAKE THE S 64 AS BREUER MEANT IT TO BE AND BRING IT INTO THE HERE AND NOW. THE CHAIR’S DESIGN AND FUNDAMENTAL STRUCTURE HAVE STOOD THE TEST OF TIME AND DESERVE CONTEMPORARY RECOGNITION .
 

Do you have one of Marcel Breuer’s cantilever chairs yourself?


No, but I have seen them in offices, in lots of films and at friends’ places. The chair’s strong presence in our collective consciousness comes down to the materiality of the design statement. In redesigning it, we elevated the chair’s elegance and enhanced its high-quality elements, so that people could appreciate it again, almost like seeing it for the first time. 

Give us a glimpse into your creative process: how did you create the designs for Thonet? 


It was clear from the start that I was not allowed to change the shape of the chair. So it was about finding new materials. 
First, we travelled back into the past, examining the manufacturing facilities in Frankenberg and scouring the Thonet archives. Then we began experimenting with interesting material samples. I am good at envisioning while designing and I first take things in visually. I just knew we should change the chrome part of the design. The nickel-silver alloy had already featured strongly in my flagship stores, so I was familiar with its effect. And for the leather, I knew immediately that it had to be matt. During the design process, we were constantly switching all of the elements around, trying out different coordinating combinations. The colour nuances in the lacquer and the metal, for example, are very subtle. 
 

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander
JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

In the end, you created two lines, one of which has the working title SERIOUS and features the colours graphite ruby red, graphite green, graphite blue and graphite black. 


For me, the SERIOUS line expresses concentration and focus. I wanted the chair’s iconic status to be apparent at first glance and its details to slowly reveal themselves. The shades of leather are subtle and yet the way the Bordeaux red, olive and black are fractured by the dominant graphite tone injects emotion into the chair’s design. We also optimised the rear view of the chair. In seating arrangements, it can appear inspirational. In private spaces, however, it lends a sense of calm to a room and is not in the least bit overpowering.

. I WANTED THE CHAIR’S ICONIC STATUS TO BE APPARENT AT FIRST GLANCE AND ITS DETAILS TO SLOWLY REVEAL THEMSELVES .
 

For the NORDIC line, on the other hand, you combined a matt nickel finish with wooden elements. 


In NORDIC, I was inspired by the Nordic design tradition, which works a lot with wood. The clear Nordic light and the colours available in nature shine through in the design, such as the brushed moss hue of the canework. In these versions, I took a Nordic design approach, and also let myself be inspired by the sensuality of natural materials. To enhance this effect, I used a nickel-silver finish in the light-coloured whitewashed wood and leather version.  

Which products, brands and architectural elements inspired you during this collaboration?


The finish on Steinway grand pianos, the leather upholstery of elegant English cars and the matt nickel-silver on the spiral staircases in my flagship stores. 

How involved were you in creating the chairs after the design phase was completed? 


I was very involved. We fine-tuned each and every detail right up to the end. 

You are known to have a bit of a perfectionist streak, and your “not yet!” was often heard at fashion shows when you felt that something was not quite right. Was this also the case during the creation of your signature collection? 


Of course. 

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander
JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

How did the idea come about to design matching tables for your signature collection?


Once the cantilever chairs were finished, they were screaming for a piece to complement them. So, we created the nesting sidetables with matching colours and materials. 

Are there any other furniture classics that you would like to reinvent and refine? 


Actually, I would be interested in any classic piece.

Marcel Breuer designed the S 64 in 1928, during his time in Berlin. Do you see aesthetic, cultural or societal parallels between the twenties of the 20th and the 21st centuries?


Yes, I do. We are once again in an age of upheaval, one in which conservative and progressive views are clashing with one another. It’s possible that it will be precisely this pressure that drives innovation. The world is facing some big problems, but people are resourceful and always interested in finding solutions. That makes me confident that we will be able to get the issues under control and make the necessary changes. 

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander
JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

Breuer served as the head of the Bauhaus furniture workshop. What is your personal connection to the Bauhaus? How much influence has it had on your work and your aesthetics? 


The Bauhaus aesthetic was very present in architecture, objects and graphics when I was young and had a great influence on me. I share many of the Bauhaus ideas: reduction to the essentials, refreshing classics, material consciousness and material research, functionality, serial quality and the drive to create new beauty. When I began my career, these principles were almost completely lacking in women’s fashion, and that was a huge motivating factor for me. I think the interplay between art and design, which is evident in the Bauhaus, can also be seen in my work.

. THE BAUHAUS AESTHETIC WAS VERY PRESENT IN ARCHITECTURE, OBJECTS AND GRAPHICS WHEN I WAS YOUNG AND HAD A GREAT INFLUENCE ON ME .
 

Quality in the design, material and manufacture of a product is reflected in its price. This was also sometimes an insurmountable problem for Bauhaus designers. Do we simply have to accept that exceptional quality has its price and therefore can’t be available to everyone?  


Quality is justified and it is beneficial. Only those who have never experienced quality are able to go without it. 

. QUALITY IS JUSTIFIED AND IT IS BENEFICIAL. ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED QUALITY ARE ABLE TO GO WITHOUT IT .
 

Those who know quality, also know that it is worth saving for. High-quality things teach us to consume less. These are objects we love and wouldn’t dream of exchanging.

. HIGH-QUALITY THINGS TEACH US TO CONSUME LESS. THESE ARE OBJECTS WE LOVE AND WOULDN’T DREAM OF EXCHANGING .
 

You have been quoted as saying: “When a design is successful, it looks as if I haven’t done anything.” But this cannot be said of your signature collection. 


I strive to create a result that looks natural and not at all forced. The signature collection simply looks as if we had taken Breuer’s cantilever chair and carefully polished it. Despite the new details, the original is immediately recognisable. 

. THE SIGNATURE COLLECTION SIMPLY LOOKS AS IF WE HAD TAKEN BREUER’S CANTILEVER CHAIR AND CAREFULLY POLISHED IT. DESPITE THE NEW DETAILS, THE ORIGINAL IS IMMEDIATELY RECOGNISABLE .

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

This was certainly not your first design/interior design project, for example you were also involved in the design process for your flagship stores. What excites you about projects like these?  


I get excited about doing things right, so that I feel good about being in the finished room or using the thing I have designed. 

Can it sometimes be a burden to see the world with such aesthetically critical eyes? You have said that you really have to physically stop yourself rearranging the furniture when you visit your friends in their homes.


Oh, definitely! It is sometimes really hard for me to keep my ideas for improvement to myself. 

What is your next design project going to be? What are you working on right now? 


I’m always dreaming of new projects and sounding out design possibilities. This means I am thinking about and preparing for my work before it even starts. My designs are always with me, even when I’m not in the studio. When I do finally sit down to work on them, I’m simply finalising my ideas. But ambitious projects are rarely realised without a vision. So you might say that success begins in the mind. 

JS . THONET - A personal interpretation by Jil Sander

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JS . THONET

A PERSONAL INTERPRETATION BY JIL SANDER

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